Robin Ono - Two Guys Metal Reviews

Sunday, October 1, 2023 5:29 PM

An afternoon with Mabel Greers' Toyshop - Interview with Clive Bayley and Bob Hagger

Sunday, August 9, 2015

In an age where band reformations have become such a common occurrence in the music scene, it seems as though we've grown accustomed to such otherwise celebrated occasions, to the point where little comes to surprise us in the mere fact it feels as though most of the major bands from the past 40 years seem to be still active. One band, however, which I, for one, was not expecting to reemerge into the music scene was Mabel Greers' Toyshop, one of the forgotten gems from Prog Rocks' history pages. Formed back in 1966 by Clive Bayley and Bob Hagger, the band would later go on to morph into the band "Yes", leaving their previous project behind with very little written or recorded traces... until the bands' recent reformation in 2014. (If you weren't already, I recommend you read back the last paragraph with some epic soundtrack playing).
Naturally, when one is presented with the opportunity to attend one of the bands pre-tour rehearsals and catch up with the band, one can only jump on the occasion with a firm and determined "Yes"!
Like I've said earlier, I've become rather dubious when it comes to longtime band reunions, but this band, however, seemed to have stood the test of time. The majestic and timeless melodies wrapped in an old-school yet thriving sound shined through the bands' locked-in, brilliant performance.
The band played a full set consisting of their newly released album, their at long last debut record New Way of Life, released after nearly 50 years since the band's first inception. The album consists of a combination between reworked songs from the band's original catalog along with some newly composed material. The set flew by to the sounds of sunny chords, sweet melodies and synth soundscapes swelling up the room, each tune flowing very nicely one after the other with the newer compositions convincingly bridging the gap between 1968 and 2014. There is something undoubtedly very special about Mabel Greers' Toyshop; what it is exactly, I'm afraid I can't quite put my finger on it, let alone put into written words, but I've no doubt that you'll feel the same way if you get a chance to catch these lads' brilliant set. You'll understand that this reunion was no mere lackadaisical effort but the reemergence of something great, an artistic urge and a passion left intact even after all of these years.

After the bands' rehearsal ended, the band took the time to have a friendly discussion with their audience and Bob stepped out from behind his drum kit to meet up with us and to give a brief history of the band. I took this occasion to catch up with both Bob and Clive to ask some questions about the bands' history and its latest developments in hopes to shed a bit more light unto this bands' unjustly forgotten tale.

How did the band get back together after all of these years?
Clive: Bob tracked me down after 45 years on Facebook.
Bob: It was when Peter Banks had died. Of course Peter was in the band with us in the old days.
I was on an airplane reading the newspaper when I read that Peter Banks had died. When I got off the plane I called Clive, got a hold of him to discuss and talk about it and that’s' when we decided to meet up. We met in Nice, at a restaurant called "La Petite Maison" and that’s' when the idea came up. We got a hold of Hugo and Alex and we went to a studio in Nice where we practiced. We wanted to see if it was do-able.
When we finally did the album, once we had finished laying down the tapes (which we did here in Paris), we got a hold of some friends; Billy Sherwood and Tony Kaye, who live in Los Angeles. We asked them if they would help us with the production of the album. We sent our tapes to them and of course they got very excited about it. So the album actually has Billy Sherwood playing some keys, and some bass and Tony Kaye playing Hammond Organ. Billy also did some of the production work for us. We've got TWO albums in fact: we've got the Paris tapes, which is the original set that we did with just the three of us (Hugo, Clive and myself) and then we've got the one that we released, which is the one with Billy Sherwood and Tony Kaye on it.

Clive: It was a tiny little rehearsal room and we thought "Let's go in there and make some noise" and it was good.

Bob: We just played the old stuff all over again.

How did it feel when you first started playing these songs again for the first time in 45 years?
Bob: Aaah, magic!

Clive: Great, yeah!
Bob: It never goes away you know? Maybe we were teenagers when we wrote them and played them originally but it stays with you. It doesn't go away. It's quite a sensation playing it again.

Clive: It was nice improving on them too, giving them a twist. It was never about copying it exactly, that would have been a disaster. So there are very strong elements that are in there but it's definitely rearranged.

Bob: We hardly listened to anything; we just did it from memory... which had advantages and disadvantages.

Clive: ... yeah, since we left bits out. But it shows we still have a memory, which is good (both burst out laughing).

How did you come about writing songs that fit the rest of the material that you had written back in the day?
Bob: It was quite natural actually.

Clive: The idea was to take 5 or 6 of the original songs and then flip them a bit, not playing them the way we used to play them, although we were playing some from memory. On one song in particular we just left a major bit out (laugh) and after we recorded the album we thought "There's something wrong here... oh yeah, we've messed up! We've missed up the most important bit of the song!» So now we've put the section in on the live set but obviously it's not on the album. Other than that, we've got lots of songs and we've got enough songs for the next album. The last one you've heard which we're still playing around with is one of the new songs. We've got another albums' worth of songs, we just need to get together and put them down.

Bob: The way we do it is that Clive usually comes up with the idea and he puts down the chords and the structure, we try it out like we did today, he goes back to write the lyrics and then we put it all together afterwards. Clive has written just about all of the material.

Clive: Except for "Oceans", which we came up with in the studio. We were just mucking about and recorded that in Paris and luckily Alex put "record" on. The whole psychedelic thing was actually just freewheeling and then afterwards we tacked on an old song I wrote about 5 years ago "Singing to your Heart".
We also like adlib-ing a lot, because in the old days we used to adlib the whole time, just get up on stage and play anything and it kind of worked. Maybe it wouldn't work so well today.

Bob: It was different then, we had a lot of Bluesy Jazz influence and so we would tend to have a theme. So we'd start with the theme and then go into the solos and then come back to the theme again, but off course things have become a lot more structured these days. (laughs)

Were there any songs from the old days that you've left out?
Bob: Yeah…

Clive: Actually, I've found a tape recently, which I’ve sent out to copy, it hasn't come back yet but it's basically a reel-to-reel quarter inch old Grundig tape in a suitcase which is going to be 50 years old. It's either got a load of our songs on, or it's got a load of nonsense on it. One or the other (laugh)!

Bob: There are a couple of songs of which we can only remember the titles and we've tried to get the memory going since and trying to play it, but it just won't come. So some of it is gone. Then we also used to do some cover versions in an original way. On the first Yes album, you remember "I See you" from Byrds. We used to play that. We also used to play "8 Miles High" from Byrds. We played "Eleanor Rigby" by the Beatles, and Yes did it again afterwards. We always did it our own way. We'd never sit and learn the music, we just listened to it and say "we can do something like this!" and that's what we did. You have even heard it incorporated into some of the songs we've got now, there's a little bit of theft from some classical music that Clive has incorporated. It just fits so nicely, and we'd probably be sued for stealing peoples' music! (laugh) We don't actually learn it, we just hear it and play it the way we knew it.

How would you compare your recent experience in the studio with your previous recordings back in the early days of the band?
Bob: It's totally different, completely different. There are some old tapes out there, there are actually two sets of tapes: one that were the BBC recordings that we did live and then there were some demos that we did for MCA records with Mike Leander, there's 2 or 3 of those out there with "Beyond and Before", "Electric Funeral"...
But the recording process is totally different now. In fact, when we went into the studio, Alex was kind of surprised "We've got computers here! Why do it like that??" (laugh).

Clive: It's dangerous, because on the album on some of the songs there are four guitar tracks, because when you're in the studio you can hear something else with every new layer you add. On the album it's fantastic, you've got at least four guitars plus the bass or sometimes even two bass lines. You just keep adding, but when you get to play it live you're like "... hang on a minute! I can only play one guitar!" (laughs). So you need to decide what to leave out and it's really hard.

Bob: That's something we didn't do in the old days. You wouldn't think of doing triple guitars on one track unless you had three guitarists.

Clive: It's annoying, because you hear it. When you're singing and playing lead, it's pretty much impossible. I can play rhythm and sing, but when you're playing lead guitar and singing and there are bits you hear that you wanna do, what happens is that you think "I'm gonna put that in". You start singing rubbish and out of tune because you're focused on the guitar. So it's one or the other. So that's the difference, because in the studio, we made that sound happen.

Bob: Alex didn't actually play in the studio, he was our engineer. When we finished and we had the three layers of guitars and we were wondering how we were going to do it, we asked Alex to come and play the rhythm guitar parts and some of the leads (laugh).

Clive: We're still one guitar short (chuckle)... potentially.

So these new possibilities actually influenced the writing process for this album then?
Clive: Definitely, a hundred percent.

Bob: There are more layers than we would've had in the old days.

Could you explain the title of the album and what it's all about?
Clive: Well it's about a new way of life (laugh).

Bob: We've both been doing business for 45 years.

Clive: Exactly, and we've had enough, let's start playing music again! (Laughs)

Bob: As for the album, we were looking for an album cover that would represent a "new way of life", and we struggled to find something. We asked an artist to come up with some ideas and we saw the indian head (the one that is on the cover) and we went "wow! THAT represents change!", because if there's one set of people in the world that went through massive changes, it's the American Indians. So that's the link basically.

Clive: That last song we played today was written after the album was released. We thought "now we've got an Indian head on the cover, we better write another song about it". So that American Indian rhythm should be on the first album but it didn't exist yet (laugh). We're bit late on parade on that one.

Bob: Maybe we can call the new album "Old way of Life" (Laugh)

Clive: Yeah, that’s' not bad! (laugh)

Could you explain where the band name comes from?
(Clive looks intently towards Bob)
Bob: ... Sorry! (Laughs)

Clive: It's his fault!

Bob: You know... in those days everybody had crazy names, the wildest possible names the better. We used to play with "The Crazy world of Arthur Brown", "Jethro Tull", "Wishbone Ash", "Big Brother and the holding company"... all of these wild and wonderful names... We thought "We've got to come up with something" and... (laughing) We just came up with "Mabel Greers' Toyshop".

Clive: There is no Mabel, and there is no Toyshop.

Bob: ... and we’ve regretted it ever since (laughs).

Clive: There must have been someone called Mabel Greer.

Bob: There is a Mabel Greer. She was American, and there's a book about her and her legacy. I don't remember the story, I'll have to check it out again, but it's something about a will, and there's a whole story about her last testament.

Clive: That’s' interesting. It's been in your subconscious for some time.

Bob: It must have been, yeah. We'll have to check that.

So she never owned a Toyshop?
Bob: No, she didn't, not as far as I know (laugh). We thought toys were a great metaphor for music at the time...

Clive: and the world currently today is a toyshop, and then Mabel could be the American Indian... there are lots of different spins on it. You came up with a name in 1966 and we thought we'd use the same old name this time round.

Bob: Peter Banks hated it, and that’s' why they changed their name to Yes when we left. He HATED it with a vengeance (laugh).

Clive: ... not his kind of thing.

So that’s' why they changed it after you guys left?
Bob: Yeah... "So Clive’s' gone we can do it now!" (laughs)

Were there any influences from more recent bands with this latest record?
Bob: I'm very very bad at modern music. If it was released after 1972 I've never heard of it! (laugh)

Well we were discussing about Porcupine Tree earlier on though, right?
Bob: Yeah, they were really good! They played some really good stuff.

Clive: I was into Genesis a lot, so after I left the band I was hanging out with Genesis a bit at Christmas cottage when they were starting. In the area where I lived in Kingston, there were a lot bands : Moody Blues, The Yardbirds, Clapton.. they were all from that area, so we would just meet up anyway and see what’s' going on. My favorite band was Genesis though, I thought they were brilliant.

Could you name one of your favorite albums, movies and books?
(answering with little to no hesitation)
Bob : Dark Side of the moon is my favorite. But I've also always been a big Clapton fan...
Clapton and Hendrix. There's also jazz... I always talk about Mose Allison, he's one of my all-time favorites, please check him out! He's a white guy who was born in the Deep South in a cotton field and I think his father was a Foreman in the cotton fields. He grew up with black guys, learning and singing the blues. He also learned the piano by himself, he plays Jazz Blues. My Hero!

Clive: The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway by Genesis probably, that's a good one... Seconds Out by Genesis!

Bob: Films? Oh because of “Sweetness” Buffalo 66! (Laughs)... Oh gosh, we're not used to answering those type of questions!
Clive: My favorite book is probably Siddhartha by Herman Hesse and to contrast that nicely, one of my favorite movies would probably be Ronin with Robert DeNiro, a sort of French gangster movie. I love action films, I actually like bizarre action films but when it comes to reading I like eastern philosophy and stuff like that. So Siddhartha by Herman Hesse is PROBABLY, in terms of a novel, one of my favorites, because it just sums up everything in one... and it's only about a 100 pages long so you don't lose the plot (laughs).

Bob: I don't have the same culture as Clive. The Day of the Jackal by Frederick Forsyth! I must've read it 50 times!
Clive: That's a great one! They also made it into a film, they made 2 films… the early one and the recent one with Bruce Willis.

Bob: The earlier film with that English actor Edward Fox is actually also one of my favorite films... I'm a bit of a James Bond fan as well (laugh).

Clive: You've got to be, man, you're British!

Bob: (still laughing) I have no choice!

Clive: It's like not liking the Queen if you don't like James Bond (laughs)

Any preferences?
Bob: Casino Royale has got to be the best. The first one.

Clive:… Dr.No was the first one though, the one with Sean Connery.

Bob: Yeah… he was the only real Bond for me!

What's your take on the newer ones by the way?
Bob: I like it up to the point where they go to Scotland. I think that film falls to bits when they get to Scotland (Skyfall).

Clive: Craig is alright though, he's a hardboy Bond isn't he? He plays it well. I think Sean Connery wins, Roger Moore I didn't think he did it well but I think Daniel Craig does it well.

Bob: He's a brilliant actor!

Any closing words?
Both of them turn to each other with a smile on their face and start singing the James Bond theme and laugh.

--

Article and Interview by Robin ONO

A very special thank you goes out to the Staff at Him Media, and to the whole band for offering us this amazing opportunity!

John Wenlock-Smith - The Progressive Aspect

Sunday, October 1, 2023 5:25 PM

Clive Bayley – Mabel Greer’s Toyshop

John Wenlock-Smith
13 January 2018

An immediate precursor of Yes in the 1960s, Mabel Greer’s Toyshop returned after a long hiatus to release their debut album, New Way of Life, in 2015. A second, The Secret, has recently appeared and TPA’s John Wenlock-Smith had a chance to chat with the band’s guitarist and vocalist Clive Bayley…

I notice there are several themes running through this album, could you define those themes for us please and what motivated you to thread the music with such themes?

The themes evolved over a few years of contemplation and writing ballads and poems…very much in the moment music and lyrics. If the album hangs together it’s because most of it was not planned. Having said that, when we all got together and ran through the songs, it just started hanging together so well… a team effort of “going with the flow.” Then in the studio arranging over snatched days and weekends it developed a sound that wouldn’t go away…

I sense that this is a very spiritual album with lots of references to spirituality and to Sufism, etc. Why is this?

Years of looking at eastern philosophy and engaging in some of that ethos. My early song writing was always the same… I guess it’s a searching for truth and reality mixed with the joy of material life balancing act! Music is in my opinion the best method for communicating these deep ideas… better than preaching!

I also noted several classical composers cropping up throughout some of the songs. Why is that?

So much music has been influenced by classical pieces… many successful bands, Pink Floyd, etc., if you listen carefully have classical themes running through their best songs. It just works so well if you can adapt it.

I see that you are very pro-Native American. Is their mistreatment by the U.S. Government something that you feel strongly about?

It’s a political commentary but moreover an historical reality and the lyrics just popped out in the moment. It’s not a crusade, it’s a reference… it puts their plight into a feeling of musical communication, rather than a soap box. I like their historical culture and the way they engaged in their spiritual endeavours whilst keeping their feet firmly on the ground, in nature. Good example for daily life… the counterpoint to that is the track More and More which is a commentary on consumerism… keep the balance!

The music is very ‘Yes-like’ in places, knowing your prehistory, is this intentional?

No, definitely not.. it’s the way I write songs and always have done.

Mabel Greer's Toyshop in the 60sIt’s lovely to hear Peter Banks on the last song, the title track for The Secret. Is there more of this lying around for inclusion on the next album perhaps?

Unfortunately not… just a few clips were sent, so sorry, it wont be possible to follow through on this unless more turns up.

So what is next for you guys? Will you be looking to do some live shows?

Yes we are looking to do some gigs in the U.S.A. next October and a showcase gig in London around May. We would love to play so if anyone wants to book us please do, make contact through our website. We have two types of sets, full on fully amped up and acoustic songs without the arrangements… could be fun.

Will you be hooking up with Billy Sherwood and Tony Kaye who both appeared on the first Mabel Greer’s Toyshop album again to create some more new music?

Billy is really busy with Yes. it would be great to do, so let’s see. The first album was fun and there is loads more to do…

Always up for working with other artists, we have plenty more songs in the pipeline and they suit a cross section of musicians. It’s all about the creativity and getting the songs out there.

I like the inclusion of Jerusalem on the song Swan. Are you a big fan of that particular song, if so why?

It’s because firstly Swan was about Swan Lake and Tchaikovsky. I always wondered why Brian May or Jimi Hendrix didn’t use the theme…as they did others. I thought it would sound great on electric guitar so I said to myself, “OK, I will do it then”. At that point I wanted a Russian ‘moody’ choir but we settled for Max Hunt’s keyboards to pick up on the Russian theme. When I wrote the lyrics, mainly in the moment, it featured the Swans environment which is a very British thing… it was natural to put in Jerusalem to accentuate the Britishness of the swan, as a balance against the Russian influence.

It’s a great album and one that hopefully will draw people to your music. Thanks for answering these simple questions Clive.

Thanks so much, I really appreciate the interest and the questions were bang on – you heard the album for what it is…

All the best.

Robert von Bernewitz

Sunday, October 1, 2023 5:20 PM

Mabel Greer's Toyshop - which morphed into prog supergroup Yes - releases 2nd reunion album entitled "The Secret".

An interview with founding member Bob Hagger.

Robert von Bernewitz
12/18/2016

Mabel Greer's Toyshop is an English band that was born in the heart of the 60's British music explosion. They have just released the first song from they're second reunion album titled "The Secret". The song "Big Brother, Little Brother" showcases the issues affecting Native American Indians. Founding members Bob Hagger and Clive Bayley reunited in 2014 to record a new album entitled "New Way of Life" and the magic had returned. Yes member Billy Sherwood produced and played on the album along with original member Tony Kaye. The original MGT featured many members of the prog supergroup Yes, which they eventually change their name to. Some of the original members include: Chris Squire, Bill Bruford, Peter Banks, Tony Kaye, Jon Anderson as well as Bob and Clive. The first album of Yes contained 2 songs born from MGT, "Beyond and Before" and 'Sweetness". The current Mabel Greer's Toyshop line up include Clive (guitar), Bob (drums), Hugo Barré (bass) and Max Hunt (keyboards). I recently asked Bob Hagger to let us know "The Secret" and the history of MGT.

R.V.B. - Congratulations of your new single release "Big Brother, Little Brother". What's behind the title and how does it relate to the American Indians Issue in the American west?

B.H. - Hi and thanks for the invitation to comment. The Native American Indians are a great people that have so much to teach us about how to respect the world. The song title should be considered as a question; who is Big Brother and who is Little Brother?

R.V.B. - I understand "Mabel Greer's Toyshop" will be releasing one song at a time until the album is complete. Are all the tracks complete at this point?

B.H. - Yes, we have recorded all the tracks and will release songs as and when editing and mastering is complete. We think progressive music sometimes needs to be listened to many times over to get a full understanding of what’s going on. So thought it would be a good idea to spread out the tracks in time, hoping people get a chance to listen to each song several times before moving on to the next.

R.V.B. - With the title of the new album being "The Secret", do the songs represent clues to the title?

B.H. - If I told you it wouldn’t be a secret would it?Maybe greers toyshop young

R.V.B. - This album is comprised of newly written material. Do you feel it captures the essence of Mabel Greer's Toy Shop earlier works?

B.H. - When Clive and I formed Mabel Greer’s Toyshop in 1966, he was only 16 and I was 18. The sound grew out of a base of blues and psychedelic music. The band Yes took the music in a direction that Chris Squire and Jon Anderson were comfortable with, and they created some beautiful works. The Mabel Greer album we released in 2015, “New Way Of Life”, was a bridge that took Clive and I from where we left off in 1968 to where we picked up again in 2015. We are both older now with many experiences influencing the way we play.

R.V.B. - With England being a giant bulls eye for an amazing source of 60's music, was the magical music scene around you the inspiration to start this group?

B.H. - I think the London youth movement and environment of 1966 was the main inspiration to start the group. Our love of music was our way of being part of the scene and creating something worthwhile.

R.V.B. - Where were some of your early gigs and how did they go?Marquee club

B.H. - Before Chris Squire and Peter Banks joined the band in 1967, our gigs had been low-key affairs. It was due to Chris Squire’s connections at The Marquee club that we started to really play in public eye. After that, in addition to the colleges around England, we regularly played at Middle Earth, Happening 44 and UFO in London. Mabel Greer had some memorable shows supporting bands like The Nice and The Who. After the name change to Yes then things really started to move. In November 1968, Yes were already supporting The Cream at the Royal Albert Hall in London.

R.V.B. - You had various members of the band that was to become Yes in the group, such as Jon Anderson, Chris Squire, Tony Kaye, Peter Banks and others... What type of sound did Mabel Greer's Toyshop set out to achieve? in later years the term "Progressive Rock" was introduced, would you consider your sound a pre-cursor to this?

B.H. - Originally we considered Mabel Greer an “underground” or “psychedelic” band. The term progressive had not yet been coined. We set out to achieve something different, original. About half of our music was original, the other half we took music that we liked and rearranged it into something special, something we could enjoy playing in our own style. We had special versions of Eleanor Rigby, Something’s Coming, Midnight Sleigh-ride, I See You and many others. The way the songs were re-arranged and played was certainly progressive in those days and we did feel like pioneers in what we were doing.Bob Hagger

R.V.B. - Who were your inspirations as a drummer and how did you get involved in music originally?

B.H. - I first started playing at the age 15 when a friend had a drum kit for sale. He was a lover of jazz, and introduced me to some of the greats. I used buy records that didn’t have drums on them so I could play along, I completed wore out an Oscar Peterson album. My interest in other drummers came later when I started to visit London clubs and I became influenced by people like Ginger Baker and Phil Seaman.

R.V.B. - On the first reunited album "New Way of Life" was it gratifying for Clive and yourself to get back to what you loved to do. Make great music?Maybel clive

B.H. - It was an amazing experience. I hadn’t seen Clive for 45 years. It was he that suggested we should go into the studio and try things out. Imagine, we sat down and played the same music again after that huge gap in time.

R.V.B. - What are you most proud of about your musical career?

B.H. - Well a number of things are memorable; in the early days we were very proud to asked to play on John Peel’s BBC radio programme “NightRide” – not everybody got that chance. We were lucky that John Peel asked us and it was a great fan. Another great memory is looking down from the stage one night and seeing Jimi Hendrix watching us play at the Middle Earth club. Both Clive and I are very proud of what our baby Mabel became, the great band Yes with all it’s legacy. More recently, we were pleased about collaborating with Billy Sherwood and Tony Kaye on the Mabel Greer revival album. Chris Squire was able to give the project his blessing just before he sadly died and Billy did a great job replacing Chris on songs like Beyond And Before.Maybel greer's toyshop drawing

R.V.B. - Who are some of the people who helped out on "The Secret".

B.H. - Sorry, it’s a Secret…

R.V.B. - Thank you for considering answering these questions.

B.H. - Thanks for asking, hope you enjoy the music...

Interview conducted by Robert von Bernewitz

Kevin Renick - Zachary Mule

Sunday, October 1, 2023 5:16 PM

YES-TERDAY AND TODAY: AN INTERVIEW WITH MABEL GREER’S TOYSHOP ABOUT THEIR SURPRISING COMEBACK AND SOME “UNFINISHED BUSINESS”

Kevin Renick | February 7, 2015

You could be forgiven for not immediately knowing who Mabel Greer’s Toyshop are. That name has not exactly been pervasive in the music press. However, hardcore fans of the legendary progressive rock ensemble Yes will recognize MGT (whom we will sometimes also refer to as just “Mabel,” as fans are starting to do) as the place Yes came from, a long, long time ago. Yes indeed, way back in 1966, founding members Robert Hagger and Clive Bayley, together with original Yes-men Peter Banks and Chris Squire, were starting to make music as MGT, something pop oriented and even a little folksy. Then, that Jon Anderson fellow had to come along and start having long, late night talks with Chris Squire, and everything got messed up. Depending on how you look at it, of course. MGT did not continue as an active entity, although material had been written and performed at the time. So, it’s more than a little unexpected that, 45 years later, they have a new album called NEW WAY OF LIFE due out, featuring Hagger and Bayley, along with Yes alumnae Tony Kaye and Billy Sherwood, and bassist Hugo Barre as the main newbie. The album succeeds in not only being eminently listenable, but in setting itself far apart from Yes-pectations (a word that might as well be officially used to describe the always-changing state of Yes fanship through the years and the rotating lineups). Such tunes as “Get Yourself Together,” “Images of You and Me,” “Singing To Your Heart” and the melodic title track are muscular, well-conceived tracks that feature pleasant harmonies, energetic playing and a joyful spirit that is almost celebratory in nature. After all this time, the band probably knew that full surrender was the best way to go with a project that has taken so long to be realized. One thing that is a bit surprising with regard to Yes is that two songs on the first Yes album, “Beyond and Before” and “Sweetness” have been totally redone here. We’ll let the band explain how that came about in the following interview, conducted via email.

Whatever preconceived notions that listeners bring to this project, it’s fair to say that if you set those aside and just listen, you’ll hear some classic old-school British rock that is influenced by its prog roots to an extent, but also straightforward in its desire to showcase the melodies and tight musicianship of this new-old ensemble, with nothing pretentious or self-indulgent to mar the result. There are a couple of instrumentals, and a few tunes that probably won’t set the world on fire, but this is just pleasant, well-crafted rock with hints of nostalgia that should make most listeners smile. Mabel Greer’s Toyshop clearly had a barrel of fun with this album, and it’s an easy bet that they will keep it going. They are doing exactly what they want to do, and the intimidating musical legacy that they’ve come from, while echoed here and there, does not straightjacket this new record in any way. It’s an admirable feat they’ve accomplished, one that is a bit unprecedented in the annals of progressive music. There were many questions worth asking the band, but the following interview tells a great deal about their unusual journey to this point:

THE MULE: Although it’s not unprecedented for a group that was better known as the earliest incarnation of a more prominent group to “reunite” and release new music, it’s also not common. How did this project ultimately come about?

ROBERT HAGGER: Ironically, I think it may have been the death of Peter Banks that was a catalyst. On March 15, 2013, I was on a flight from Dubai to Johannesburg and read in a newspaper that “Peter Banks, former lead guitarist with Yes and Mabel Greer’s Toyshop, died on March 7 from heart failure at the age of 65.” THE (London) TIMES dedicated three-quarters of a page to the story. Mabel Greer’s Toyshop was mentioned in the article, although inaccurately reporting that, “the band was formed by Banks and Chris Squire.” In reality, Clive and I asked Chris to join following my audition with the band, the Syn. Chris then invited Peter and Jon Anderson to join us. Peter made a huge contribution to what we were doing at the time. I started swapping emails with Clive and we agreed to meet up in July in France at the Le Petit Maison in Nice, a restaurant opposite the opera house. It’s a surreal experience to meet someone again after 45 years! We had a lot to talk about and during the meal he blurts it out, “we should reform Mabel Greer’s Toyshop.” We all fall about laughing, but it hits a nerve, and we agreed to book some studio time in August.

CLIVE BAYLEY: Mabel was always “unfinished business” for both of us; we thought the music deserved to be carried through to a larger audience.

THE MULE: Most hardcore Yes fans will likely know of you guys, but perhaps not the prog audience at large. What would you say distinguishes the current musical style you’re creating from the ‘60s incarnation of the band?

CLIVE: Back in the ‘60’s our style was likened to a crossover of Pink Floyd and the Byrds; strong melody lines and good harmonies, albeit a little more classic rock oriented (as was carried over to the Yes incarnation). If anything, the Mabel melody lines are perhaps even stronger and heavier now and include 45 years of influences from far and wide.

THE MULE: It was a bit of a surprise to hear the tracks “Beyond and Before” and “Sweetness” redone on this record, as those tracks were on the first Yes album and heavily featured Jon Anderson. What made you decide to record those songs, and are you concerned at all that your take on them will suffer by comparison to Anderson’s distinctive style?

ROBERT: “Beyond and Before” was always the Mabel opening piece at gigs, even before Jon Anderson joined us. The song, written by Clive and Chris Squire, is part of our history, we couldn’t possibly leave it out.

CLIVE: Jon is a great singer, and we all enjoy the Yes version… but, we wanted to do the melody lines more like the original Mabel version. Regarding “Sweetness,” which I co-wrote with Jon and Chris… again, Jon’s version is great, but my voice is an octave lower and a different style. The interesting thing about the Mabel version of “Sweetness” is the lead guitar running through the song in counterpoint which twists it into another style, I think.

THE MULE: Talk about your compositional process a little: How did tracks such as “Get Yourself Together” and “Images of You and Me” originate and develop into the arrangements we hear? Then elsewhere, you have tracks that are mostly instrumental such as “King and Country” and “Oceans”… how are aesthetic decisions like that made? Does everyone have to agree on the elements of a song, or do a couple of you get to pretty much determine the direction of a tune?

CLIVE: I think songwriting and arranging really is my thing. So in a lot of the arrangements I was trying to create a fuller, more interesting sound than we had achieved on the older material. The new songs just kind of fell into place. On “New Way of Life,” Billy altered the bass line from what we had originally and this seemed to change the style of the song quite a bit. He just did it, we all liked it, so we kept it. Billy’s style worked well as he intuitively caught where the European part of the band were coming from… great job from both him and Tony Kaye.

ROBERT: “Get Yourself Together” and “Images” were, again, written back in 1967. When we went back in the studio to record them we did it from memory, which was an interesting experience in itself. It’s important to note that the only rehearsal we had was to play the numbers through once or twice and then lay down the tracks. There are advantages and disadvantages in doing it this way. We sacrificed some quality to retain the vibe and energy.

THE MULE: “Oceans” makes it pretty clear that you guys are comfortable with long instrumental passages and “painterly” style soundscapes. Might you consider doing an all-instrumental recording someday?

CLIVE: The music piece determines if vocals are required… alternatively, if a strong melody line is created then the backing can be hard rock or delicate, it just kind of evolves. Yes, I would like to do an instrumental with strings and a choir sort of thing, but I suspect a melody line will creep in somewhere as a vocal. I do like Rock Opera, music telling a story. I wrote an album called KING AND COUNTRY, (which has) not yet been released, that does this. Strangely, it was based on TESTAMENT OF YOUTH, which is now about to be released as a major movie. I would like to re-record this album or update it at some point in time.

THE MULE: Clive and Robert, what was it like revisiting something you did so long ago? Were you at all concerned about being in the shadow of Yes as you embarked on this project?

CLIVE: I don’t want to emulate Yes, they are a wonderful band and they are Yes. However, you can detect where some of the Yes sound came from, and with a little imagination, you have a different take on where it could have gone if we had remained involved. I don’t rate myself as a great guitarist like Steve Howe or Peter Banks… but, I think I can write and arrange some nice sounds, and want to share that.

ROBERT: When Clive and I formed Mabel back in 1966, we knew we had something special. Even at the age of 16, Clive was writing stuff like “Beyond and Before” and “Jeanetta,” still one of my all-time favourites and also included on the new album. There is no question of being in the shadow of another band, we are just making our offering and if a few people enjoy it, then we will be happy.

THE MULE: Tony Kaye and Billy Sherwood are in the unique position of having played with later versions of Yes; in fact, Tony played in early AND later incarnations. Would love it if you guys could share your insights into what it was like during your particular eras with Yes, and how those experiences influenced you for this new MGT project. Do you still have contact with Chris Squire, any of you? Has he heard the new work?

BILLY SHERWOOD: I was lucky enough to tour with the 90125 (Yes) lineup in 1995, for their TALK record, after that, the band reverted back to the classic lineup as it’s known, with Howe and Wakeman. I was called in to produce/mix for that lineup during the KEYS TO ASCENSION sessions. After that phase, they broke up and it was at that point that Squire and myself began writing and sending tracks around to Anderson, who got involved in this new writing wave… which became the OPEN YOUR EYES record. This is when I joined as a full member, touring that record and the following record THE LADDER. This would be the third Yes lineup I had the pleasure to play with. I left the band in 2000 to go back into the studio production world, making many records, some of which included various Yes members… (THE PROG COLLECTIVE 1 and 2, the Fusion Syndicate, William Shatner‘s PONDER THE MYSTERY among other records). As a result of my ongoing relationship with Yes, I was asked to come in and mix their most recent studio record, HEAVEN AND EARTH, as well as their live DVD from Bristol called LIKE IT IS. I am currently just starting to mix another Live Yes DVD from Mesa, Arizona… Regarding Mabel Greer’s Toyshop, it was a part of Yes history in that the early seeds of Yes were housed within that band in many ways. When I was asked to come on board to make their new record, it was an honor. As a Yes fan, knowing the backstory of where it all began, I felt it was something special to be involved with such history by pushing it forward into the future. I really enjoyed playing on the record and producing/mixing, it was a labour of love indeed!

(Tony Kaye was also part of the Mabel Greer’s Toyshop/Yes transition in June to August 1968 in London, and was of course the keyboard player on the versions of “Beyond and Before” and “Sweetness’ that featured on the first Yes album. Tony was very pleased to be involved in the revival album with Clive and Bob, and enjoyed playing the old material again. He has also been working with Billy Sherwood on their joint-project and new album with the band Circa… Tony was not available for this interview).

THE MULE: You are billed as an “English psychedelic rock band” on your web site. What does the term “psychedelic” mean to you. Has audience perception of that word changed since the ‘60s?

ROBERT: We used the term “psychedelic” with the meaning “mind-revealing” in that the music was designed to change the state of the listener’s mind by sound effects and reverberation. As an example, just listen to some of the intros and specifically to the track “Oceans” on the new album.

CLIVE: Yes, audience perception of “psychedelic” has changed. We were dressed differently then, and when we started out it was the pre-Flower Power era. The ‘60s were a great time of peaceful protest and desire to change the establishment, too. Bob Dylan, Jimi Hendrix, we were all breaking new ground. I think we tend to use the term “psychedelic” loosely… it could encompass a protest movement, new way of life, breakout… But, using the word “psychedelic” also brings back images of that era where all these things were going on.

THE MULE: Talking about this area a little more, progressive rock sort of had its heyday in the ‘70s with groups like Yes, Genesis, King Crimson and Pink Floyd. Then it fell out of favor for many years, partially due to punk and new wave, but a new crop of bands like Porcupine Tree, Spock’s Beard and many more proved that prog rock still had a massive audience in the ‘90s and beyond. What do you guys see as the importance and appeal of prog rock? Do you see yourselves fitting into that realm, even though some of the tracks on your new record are essentially straightforward pop songs?

CLIVE: I think we are flexible enough to try different styles. The title track, dare I say, is more country and western than prog rock. A bit like the last Muse album where they introduced some R&B tunes, that shocked a few people. We like to experiment a lot, which again, is that psychedelic label, but it doesn’t ALL have to sound like Flower Power… if that makes sense?

THE MULE: Does it affect groups like you that made your first mark in a very different musical era, that the technology and distribution systems have changed so much? Do you think music has been devalued by mp3s and the like, or is it just the inevitable change that musicians have to adapt to? How do you personally see the music business these days?

CLIVE: Well, Bob and I are getting back in so we are seeing the music business in a new light after a long gap. It clearly has changed. I think we all have to constantly adapt quickly as the world is speeding up now and more and more will change. Go with the flow but keep your integrity and create what you believe in.

ROBERT: In the old days, musicians could not rely on record sales to make a living, they had to go out and play in front of an audience. Funny that today is the same…

THE MULE: For those who don’t know, what is the origin of the band’s name? Was there ever any thought about going out under a different name when you got together again?

ROBERT: Back in the ‘60s, interesting, way-out names were the way to go: Big Brother and the Holding Company, Jefferson Airplane, Crazy World of Arthur Brown, et cetera. So we became Mabel Greer’s Toyshop. This whole project was about reviving the vibes that we had going in the beginning, so it would have been counter-productive to rename the band, although it seems that everybody now refers to it as just plain “Mabel… ”

THE MULE: What are your biggest hopes as you launch into this new phase of the band’s career? Will you be touring a lot? Will you be doing other early Yes songs besides the ones on the record? And do you think there will be more albums down the road?

CLIVE: No, I don’t think we will do any Yes songs. We will do some showcase gigs and see what happens. I am definitely arranging the next album soon; we already have a lot of new songs for it. And I want to do that Rock Opera thing or themed album. We are happy to do a new album every year if the audience likes it. Constantly trying to create exciting music, whatever shape it takes. Let’s see where this “NEW WAY OF LIFE” takes Mabel after March 9…

NEW WAY OF LIFE will be released as a digital download and CD on March 9, 2015 by RSK Entertainment. For more information, visit the band’s website at mabelgreerstoyshop.com.

Aaron Badgley - Spill Magazine

Sunday, October 1, 2023 4:55 PM

A PSYCHEDELIC RETURN

A CONVERSATION WITH CLIVE BAYLEY OF MABEL GREER’S TOYSHOP

In the history of rock, there are a few stories that are just too odd to be fiction. Mabel Greer’s Toyshop is one of those stories. Their history could only be true, because no one could make this one up.

In 1966, Clive Bayley (vocals/guitar/composer), Robert Hagger (drums) and Paul Rutledge (bass) formed a band in London, named Mabel Greer’s Toyshop. This psychedelic band performed in and around London and started making a name for itself.

“Very much psychedelic,” agrees Clive Bayley during a recent conversation. “This was an incredibly creative and artistic time in rock music and everyone was trying something different. I never played the same thing twice, which really annoyed Peter (Banks). The rest of the guys would just say ‘he’s off on one again’. It was incredible.”

Around this time, other bands came to the attention of the members of Mabel Greer’s Toyshop. One band was Syn, featuring Chris Squire, whom Hagger had previously met. Squire was invited to join the band, replacing Rutledge. Peter Banks, also in Syn, soon jumped ship and joined Mabel Greer’s Toyshop. The band did several gigs, recorded a session for the B.B.C (John Peel’s show) but after Jon Anderson came into the fold, the band shifted. In May 1968, the band changed their name to Yes. Bayley and Hagger left the band, and for Bayley the world of music.

“When I left the band, I knew Yes was going to be big. It was obvious. After that I purposely did not touch a guitar for ten years.”

Yet Bayley, who has a keen interest in all kinds of music, drifted back into the world of music in a slightly unique manner.

“I really loved classical Indian music, and from that I expanded into Persian classical. This led me back to the acoustic guitar to start playing and writing again. I like creating new things.”

But again, he was not looking to do much with his playing, as he had a ‘day job’. But then Hagger got in touch with him through Facebook.

“Apparently he had been looking for me for a few years, but he kept spelling my last name wrong, I spell it with a ‘y’, not an ‘i’, but he eventually found me and I was living at Nice at the time, and it turned out he lived in Nice too. This is after Peter died. We arranged to meet up and, remember, I have not seen him for 45 years. Yet when he walked into the restaurant I knew it was him right away.”

“So we started mucking about with guitar and drums and we thought ‘this is all right’, so we went into a studio in Nice. We got hold of Hugo (Barre) a music teacher and brilliant musician, and Alex Karen who played guitar on the first album. I took some of the older songs we never issued and wrote some new ones, I like to write new music. I am more interested in new music and not going back. Having said that, revisiting these older songs was a joy to do as well.”

Mabel Greer’s Toyshop debut album, New Way of Life, was released in 2015, a full 49 years after they initially formed. The album also featured Billy Sherwood and Tony Kaye.

Now in 2017, they are back with a brand-new album, The Secret. Some member changes have occurred, but the nucleus of the band is Bayley, Hagger and Barre. Max Hunt helps out on keyboards and on one track, Banks plays guitar.

““The Secret”, that was really weird. Peter Banks’s estate contacted me and offered me some of Peter’s stuff and asked if I could write a song around it. Lots of scraps of tapes so not much to work with. I sat at an old piano, came up with a melody. I sent it to Max, ‘can you play this?’, so he put it down and I started working in the guitar. I wrote the lyrics with Peter in mind. It took a while to do it. It was strange because we had recorded eight songs and this became the ninth. Everything worked out. When we put the album together we added some sound and segue ways. Everything, every sound, on that album is meant to be there, everything has a reason and purpose.”

Turning Peter Banks’s guitar into a song was not the only challenge facing Bayley and the band.

Two songs on the album (“Lover’s Fire” and “Image of Existence”) utilize poems by Dr. Javad Nurbakhsh (Dr. Nurbakhsh, a psychiatrist, was Master of the Nimatullahi Sufi Order from 1953 until 2008).

“I have been to Iran several times and I am very interested in Persian culture and music. I read this poem (for “Image of Existence”), and the music just popped out. I played the tune of an acoustic guitar, and it can be difficult. You have to sing the lyrics in a very odd way, because it is a poem, the timing of the lyrics is very different. I get into a mood, look at the lyrics and get into a meditative state, well almost,” says Bayley.

The Secret is an incredible album, full of strong, thoughtful and meaningful songs, expertly played by a band with talent, skill and a very unique history. Unlike their debut album, The Secret, is made of entirely new songs.

“A year and a half ago when we recorded the first album, I had some other sons knocking about. So we got the band together, did a rough recording, and Max, our keyboard player took it home to his studio. But you know, I am itching to do another album. Also, I would love to do some live shows.”

“We all lead pretty busy lives, so it is difficult getting everyone together. But we are looking at doing something in the new year. Maybe start with some showcase shows in London. Some of the album may be difficult to play live, but really the songs are written in such a way that they can be stripped down if need be.”

Far too much time has passed for this band, and listening to their radio sessions, one can only imagine the unreleased material that must exist (some has surfaced in box sets and other collections, and all of it is well worth searching out). Given the incredible music on the two albums, I am encouraged to know that Bayley is “itching to get back in the studio.” Mabel Greer’s Toyshop is an incredible band and The Secret is a brilliant album.

Paul Golder - Brentwood's Only Alternative

Sunday, October 1, 2023 4:51 PM

Clive Bayley chats about Mabel Greer’s Toyshop

Written by Paul Golder in Brentwood's Only Alternative

Friday 16 February 2018

Mabel Greer’s Toyshop formed in 1966 and were the precursor to legendary progressive rock band Yes. Band founders Clive Bayley, Robert Hagger and Paul Rutledge recruited a number of musicians who would form Yes’s nucleus, including Chris Squire, Peter Banks, Jon Anderson, Bill Bruford and Tony Kaye.

Clive left the band in 1968 – but a meeting with Robert in 2014 led to the original band being reformed. Since then they’ve recorded two new albums, the most recent of which – The Secret – was released in December. They’ve also re-released some remastered recordings originally made in 1966 and 1967.

Clive talks about his memories of the early years in the band, and what they’ve been doing second time around.

You can find out more about what the band are currently up to at [Link]

Rich Davenport - Record Collector

Wednesday, June 7, 2023 10:25 PM

The Secret | Mabel Greer’s Toyshop

Record Collector Magazine #477
March 2018
28 February 2018

Mabel Greer’s Toyshop are well-known to Yes fans as the musical cocoon (try saying that after a stiff drink) from which the prog giants emerged. Founder members Clive Bayley (vocals/guitar) and Bob Hagger (drums) reconnected after guitarist Peter Banks’ passing in 2013, and issued New Way Of Life (2015), a mix of original-era material and new songs, featuring Yes men Billy Sherwood and Tony Kaye.

The Secret, with a posthumous appearance from Banks the only cameo, raises the question of whether Bayley and Hagger, with new members Max Hunt (keys) and Hugo Barr (bass), can deliver a full album of valid new music. With no pun intended, the answer is “yes.”

The modern-day Mabel’s sound couches Bayley’s lower-register vocals, not unlike Justin Hayward (The Moody Blues) or John Wetton (ASIA), in classic prog guitar and keyboard tones, taking nine strong songs as the basis for extended, intricately layered arrangements (the elaborate Love’s Fire, Swan, and More And More’s psych-folk-blues hybrid), guitars are sometimes a little busy around the vocals, but interlocking convincingly.

Though not a concept album, The Secret makes for an engrossing end-to-end listen from a band with something worthwhile to offer, irrespective of their family tree.

Hagger Bayley Music | MGTCD 2 (CD)
Reviewed by Rich Davenport

Geoffrey Mason

Monday, June 27, 2022 9:43 AM

Mabel Greer's Toyshop morphed into YES with their first official gig as a band named "YES" on August 3, 1968 at East Mersea Youth Camp, Essex.

For about a month prior to the "YES" debut, Peter Banks left Mabel Greer's Toyshop and joined the then skinhead band Neat Change.

The first two photos above by Sylvia Pitcher of Neat Change in July 1968 in the park feature them in their "skinhead" mode. Then they go through a magical hair and clothing transformation to a more pop sensibility for the cover to their DECCA single "I Lied To Auntie May" / "Sandman" (July 1968). It's the exact same lineup pictured in all 3 Neat Change band photos above, although it is most likely that Peter Banks didn't play for the recording of the single.

Then after only being in Neat Change for a few weeks, Peter Banks was out. He comes back to the transforming Mabel Greer's Toyshop/YES.

Peter Banks was in the Neat Change lineup for two gigs, both at Marquee Club London in July 1968: July 6 and July 13.